[00:00:00] Kat: So after university, I went off and worked for free as an intern at a cosmetic distributor. My parents thought I was absolutely nuts but I was like, you know what? I have a feeling that this is the right way to go. I was always really obsessed with the power of scent. I was always playing with my mom’s lipsticks and her perfumes and my grandma’s items. And I thought, why not just try it out. 

[00:00:22] Kat: We both had noticed that we were working in similar industries. We had the same career path, we had the same degree and we were like, hey, you know what? We both have this experience and we’re both really interested in entrepreneurship and starting our own brand. 

[00:00:36] Kat: We’re so aligned. She was the creative, I was more of like the business mindset and we just started from there. We started working on the brand during the evenings after our nine to fives and on weekends, and LOHN was born in 2018. 

[00:00:52] This is Jumpstart where women-led early stage beauty brands. Learned counterintuitive insights to accelerate their profitability from $1 million to a hundred million dollars without spending a fortune on ads, agencies, influencers, and mindless distribution. With your host, Rohit Bonta, PNG, and founder of the Toronto based Jump Accelerator, together we can create a more humane, conscious, and beautiful planet of women’s world.

[00:01:24] Don’t forget to subscribe and click the bell notifications.

[00:01:32] Rohit: Hey Kat, I welcome you to Jumpstart Beauty Brand podcast, which is all about what is it that beauty founders do not know. And for all my listeners and viewers of Jumpstart Beauty Brand podcast, let me introduce Kat to you.

[00:01:44] 

[00:02:01]

Rohit: Also it is sold through one of the best beauty stores, fashion and beauty stores in North America, including Anthropologie, The Detox Market, and hundreds of health and beauty boutiques.

[00:02:11] Kat plays volleyball. She’s very good at soccer. She’s been playing guitar as a kid. Her favorite actor is Ryan Gosling and she does binge watch Netflix like all of us at times. Also, she’s an all or nothing person. Over to you, Kat. Let’s start with what are the career transitions that happened in your life? I know you are a chemical engineer from Queen’s How did you meet Victoria? And how did it all lead to LOHN?

[00:02:33] 

[00:02:46] Kat: Funny fact is that my husband’s name is Khan and Victoria’s husband’s name is John, which rhymes with LOHN, and we were married after we started LOHN. So that’s a funny story, but both of us we knew each other from high school and university.

[00:03:02] Kat: We were two years apart and we both attended Queen’s for chemical engineering. During our engineering degrees, we definitely felt like we didn’t belong. It was very male dominated, it was very intense. And most of the graduates were going off to work in oil and gas or to pursue their PhD or med school. And we just felt you know what, we want to get into an industry that’s focused on cosmetics and fragrance. Let’s use this knowledge and do that. 

[00:03:26] Kat: So after university, I went off and worked for free as an intern at a cosmetic distributor. My parents thought I was absolutely nuts but I was like, you know what? I have a feeling that this is the right way to go. I was always really obsessed with the power of scent. I was always playing with my mom’s lipsticks and her perfumes and my grandma’s items. And I thought, why not just try it out. 

[00:03:48] Kat: After my internship, I then applied to a role at Estée Lauder in quality assurance and I learned all about testing raw materials that goes into our foundations, lipsticks, powders and I knew that I wanted to gain a little more education in the field of fragrance and cosmetics.

[00:04:06] Kat: The industry is quite small in Toronto. It’s grown over the years, but I felt, let’s go back to school, learn some more about this and get back into it. So I applied to a program actually based in Europe called ESIPCA, which is started by the Guerlain family. And this was a master’s program focused on cosmetics and fragrance. It was one year of science, one year of business. In the first year, I had a perfume program or perfume class where I had to memorize over 80 different raw materials and 100 different perfumes on the market. I was smelling them every day and testing myself and it was pretty crazy, but it was a lot of fun. 

[00:04:44] Kat: Victoria, she had a slightly different path, but she worked at L’Oreal in sales and also for one of the biggest amenities manufacturers in Canada. So they create hotel products for brands like Le Labo and Diptyque. So she had some really great [00:05:00] experience there and it was really organic the way we connected. It was in 2015 on LinkedIn.

[00:05:05] Kat: We both had noticed that we were working in similar industries. We had the same career path, we had the same degree and we were like, hey, you know what? We both have this experience and we’re both really interested in entrepreneurship and starting our own brand. Both of our fathers are self employed. My brother is also self employed and it was always really in me to pursue something on my own. So we connected, we had a initial meeting and Victoria had a PowerPoint presentation ready to go with all of the brands and products she loved. And the minute I saw the presentation, I was like, yes, this is exactly what I love.

[00:05:42] Kat: We’re so aligned. She was the creative, I was more of like the business mindset and we just started from there. We started working on the brand during the evenings after our nine to fives and on weekends, and LOHN was born in 2018. 

[00:05:58] Kat: Wow. Everything seems to have come together.  

Rohit: And what is so amazing is that, you guys did not know each other when you were at Queen’s, were you batchmates, classmates, like in the same program?

[00:06:09] Kat: No, we were two years apart and we knew each other from high school and university, but we were never close, we were never friends. We just knew of each other. So it was again, very organic, just the way it happened. I always think about what would have happened if that LinkedIn message was never sent and, our paths could have been completely different now, but it was all very meant to be in my mind.

[00:06:31] Rohit: Wow. I was thinking of the message. It takes one day, in your case, it takes one message. Like one message can change your life. Perfect. Just so you know I also went to Queen’s and I am also an engineering student, even though I studied in India a long time back. So, we have those two commonalities.

[00:06:48] Kat: Amazing. Which engineering did you pursue? 

[00:06:51] Rohit: I only remember the subject, which is mechanical, like the stream. I don’t remember anything else because I did nothing. Like I only had fun, and fun. 

[00:07:00] Kat: I hear you. It was the same boat as me.

[00:07:02] Rohit: Back in India, like just like your folks, maybe, everybody wanted their kid to be an engineer or a doctor in those times.

[00:07:10] Kat: Yes, absolutely. 

[00:07:11] 

[00:07:24] Kat: Absolutely. That’s a great question,

[00:07:27] Kat: because there is so much competition in our industry. During our research phase, we went to many different stores along Queen Street West, for those who are from Toronto, and we would pop into the apothecary shops and smell the candles, look at the candles and say, we noticed that there were a lot of minimal black and white brands on the market, with scents that just didn’t have a great scent throw and their scents weren’t very layered. For example, they may have just been vanilla mint or I don’t know, cotton. We were like, let’s create scents that are really layered. We have between eight to 12 different scent notes at each scent that we offer in our collection. And let’s create a brand that’s inviting, colorful and elevated. The brands that did have great scent throw and great layered scents were also very expensive. So I’m talking like the luxury brands that you’ll find at Holt Renfrew, that might cost 100 to 200 dollars a candle. And that was another opportunity for us to offer a product that was more approachably priced, but still made with great ingredients and actually cleaner ingredients. A lot of the luxury brands contain paraffin wax and ours is a blend of really clean and sustainable coconut wax. So there were a lot of micro opportunities that we found to create this one brand, and I think that’s what’s really allowed us to stand out from what’s on the market between all the noise.

[00:08:50] Rohit: Perfect. No, that’s very insightful, but I just want to dig slightly deeper into. You went into shops and smell those candles or you use them, right? You must have bought a few.

[00:08:58] 

[00:09:18] Kat: So research and development, testing every single wax and wick, vessel on the market, working with our graphic designer to do the branding, the colors, the fonts, building our website. All of these things took about two years, while we were both working full time. 

[00:09:34] Rohit: That’s an amazing insight. It’s so simple, there’s no rocket science. It’s not like an engineering, you’re to go inside some combustion engine and got to understand the mechanics. Yet, so many beauty founders miss it, and you’re absolutely right. Every time I’ve spoken to founders who have great formulations, usually the time is in between 16 months and 20 months that they spent deliberating on their formulation. All good things come to those who [00:10:00] wait, right? So I always tell founders, you are entrepreneurs, action is inside. 

[00:10:03] Rohit: All you need is a bit of deliberation whether it comes to your formulation or brand. So absolutely well done.

[00:10:08] Rohit: Moving on to our next question

[00:10:10] 

[00:10:22] Kat: And I can’t imagine doing it on my own. I’m really grateful for my partnership and the fact that we can balance each other out in terms of our skills. And, when one person’s sick, like Victoria’s sick today, I’m stepping in and I’m taking charge of the manufacturing and, the emails and that sort of thing. So, I would say that there’s capital that’s required to scale and there’s a team that’s required. You can’t do it all on your own. These days when you’re expected to show your face as a founder on social media, run your own personal social account, be present on email 24/7. Run in an e -commerce business, run a wholesale business. There is so much that goes into it and we’re constantly leaning on our community for support. At the beginning, it was mainly friends and family who would help us out, pack orders, give us feedback on packaging, and luckily now we’ve been able to hire an amazing team. But, I would say support is everything and you really can’t do it all on your own. 

[00:11:21] Kat: When it comes to capital, we’re completely self funded and, it has its own challenges. It is the way it is right now. And we’re not growing like crazy, but we’re growing at a sustainable, profitable rate and we’re okay with that. So you have to figure out how you want to grow what your goals are and do you want to be acquired? Do you want to just build a really nice, healthy profitable business? I think those are all things that are really important to think about. As well, the competition is so fierce, as I mentioned before, and I’m sure everyone and their mother launched a candle brand or a beauty brand during COVID. So you really have to figure out how you’re going to stand out from the competition. What are your values? What are your brand differentiators? How are you going to stand out on the shelf? If you’re focusing on retail. These are all key elements of building a brand. And it’s just, it’s not easy. It takes a lot of work, a lot of grind, and you’re not going to make money right away. I can say that it took three years for us to pay ourselves. So lots of different factors but yeah, those are my ideas. 

[00:12:19] Rohit: That is very elaborate. I love the fact that you said you want to grow profitably because I always believe that growth begins with profit. What’s the point of growing, scaling up, you’re not making a profit, you’re expecting it, and we know, the book that we all read “Great Expectations.” More often than not, you’re disappointed if you have expectations, it’s where to realize profit, do it sustainably. Very well said. And the second point, when you said you got to do everything. So, I’m absolutely with you. I think those founders who venture into entrepreneurship thinking “I’m not going to do this, I’m not going to do that” will have a slightly harder time than those who are very open to doing whatever it takes to succeed, right?

[00:12:58] Kat: Absolutely.

[00:12:59] Rohit: That’s what I honestly believe and my experience has been. So very wonderful answer, Kat. 

[00:13:03] 

[00:13:41] Kat: Absolutely. Number one is definitely 

[00:13:44] Kat: the relationship building with your buyers, or with whoever is responsible for the purchasing at the store.

[00:13:50] Kat: We started attending trade shows in New York. We’ve been to shop object for the last three shows. We’re going again in February, and this is how we’ve built our wholesale business in the US. And I would say, there’s a huge difference between sending emails to a buyer versus meeting them in person, actually having that communication, telling your story and just checking in on them and seeing how they’re doing. How is their family? What are they up to? What are their hobbies? Building that relationship and not just pushing sales on them 24/7, 

[00:14:17] Kat: because we all get sales pitches all day long and you can tell when something is genuine versus just a push for profit or push for revenue, right? So we’re in constant communication with our buyers 

[00:14:31] Kat: and we just act as authentic people to them. I think that’s just the most important thing in any sales role. 

[00:14:38] Kat: Number two would be in store trainings. So, especially with our key retailers, it’s so important to ensure that whoever’s on the floor selling your product is aware of your brand, is aware of your products and falls in love with it and can sell it really well. So, we run regular store trainings with our key retailers and we find that the sell [00:15:00] through is immediate after we complete them. So just really getting in touch with the sales reps on the floor, telling them about the product, maybe giving them samples, and just allowing them to fall in love with your brand is huge.

[00:15:13] Kat: It’s really difficult to do that when we have over 250 retailers. So as you said, you really have to pick and choose where you put your energy and just focus on the 80 20 rule. I would say, if you can run zoom sessions online and have a bunch of different store locations, for example, with Anthropologie we try to do it in bulk. Even with Holt Renfrew during COVID, it was tricky, because we had to train Vancouver and Calgary. So doing that strategically and just making sure you’re making the best out of your time as a founder is important.

[00:15:44] Kat: And then the last thing I would say is just being able to constantly evolve and learn from the buyers. So we constantly ask them, what are the customers looking for? We reach out to our own direct customers as well. But I think the feedback is so important, whether it’s about our scents, our packaging, new product launches, it’s really key to understand where the market is heading and what shoppers are looking for. So we’re super open to feedback and that’s something that has really in tandem built our relationships with these people and allows us to stand out from the competition on the shelf.

[00:16:19] Rohit: Love it. Absolutely love it. These are such great insights, Kat. If it’s okay with you, I want to go to the first one where you said relationship with the buyer. What is the reason that you need relationship with the buyer? What is the core? 

[00:16:32] Kat: Absolutely. Number one, they’re the key decision maker at the end of the day, whether, they’re going to bring in your brand or not. 

[00:16:39] Kat: So you’re selling the brand to them, you’re selling yourself to them. We are constantly telling our story as founders. We own all those relationships. Currently with our big retailers, we don’t outsource it to anybody and that’s made a huge impact with our relationships. So yeah, they definitely make those big decisions and we’ll send you the PO or not. But I think, at the end of the day, you have to have them on your team because they’re the ones that are going to filter any information through you, to give you the store manager names, to give you the location names, where you need to do those trainings. They are so busy, but you have to just make sure you have regular meetings on the calendar and that you can get the information from them that you need and that you put the effort into making those meetings, going to meet them face to face because they’ll remember you and they’ll think of you, when they’re looking at all the competition.

[00:17:27] Kat: They also understand what sells in the stores, right? So, getting their feedback is super important and understanding from them what they’re looking for, what their customers are looking for, 

[00:17:36] Kat: as I mentioned, is key. 

[00:17:39] Rohit: That’s so wonderful. One, obviously, they will get your products on the store. And I love the fact that you mentioned about your story because sometimes people don’t get your story in just one email, right? Sometimes it doesn’t resonate straight away and if you’re too pushy, they might block themselves from ever being open to your story. And to your second point, which is amazing, they’re so busy. Sometimes, I show brands, slides of a buyer’s world: a table with 100 product samples, unopened boxes, these sets of POs, documents lying. She has no time to go to the washroom. So, you have to understand them, understand their life, how their day is structured and you can only do that if you develop a relationship slowly. So, I’m absolutely with you. That was a wonderful insight, by the way, Kat. 

[00:18:22] 

[00:18:47] Kat: That’s a really good question.

[00:18:48] Kat: I am no genie. I definitely can’t predict the future, but my insights personally, from what I’ve noticed just from working with our suppliers and looking at the competition, is that obviously natural and sustainable are super important.

[00:19:05] Kat: They’re not just important, but they are imperative these days with building a brand. I’m not sure if you saw recently that Diptyque even launched refillable candles recently, which was quite shocking to me as a luxury brand, who is, really focused on sustainability. I think that was a huge message to all the candle brands or home fragrance brands out there.

[00:19:26] Kat: So I think there will be focus on not just sustainable packaging but sustainable ingredients when it comes to fragrances and raw materials and cosmetics. We’re constantly working with our fragrance houses to find out what’s new and innovative and how can we tap into sustainability more with our products.

[00:19:43] Kat: Another thing, that I think, people need to realize is the state of the environment, air pollution, all these forest fires that are happening all over North America and all over the world. I think this will put a much larger focus on indoor air [00:20:00] quality, and this will affect the home fragrance industry, whether it be good or bad.

[00:20:04] 

[00:20:18] Kat: And I think just again, with the sustainability, when you asked about what will be reduced or eliminated, I think it’s like just general waste.

[00:20:25] Kat: There’s so much waste. We’re constantly consuming, we’re constantly buying products. I know for Black Friday, everyone went crazy this year and brands really need to think about that and really put that into perspective with what they’re building and what they’re putting out there.

[00:20:40] 

[00:21:28] Rohit: For sure. I appreciate the candidness, no oxygen chamber, right? So every time I think of improving air quality, I’m reminded of Michael Jackson sleeping in an oxygen chamber, which was hilarious to me. I absolutely love the fact that you spoke about sustainability environment and the air quality. And I absolutely love when you speak about elevating your space.

[00:21:48] And obviously you’re mainly focused on the home fragrance category. So elevating the home space. I Also feel that in today’s mental health world, where everybody has a mental health issue, some might admit and some, it might not be that obvious, but I believe the environment inside the home will play the critical role going forward. Not these social media channels, nothing against them. Perfect.

[00:22:10] Rohit: So this question has to do with the entrepreneur’s life. 

[00:22:15] Toughest time in your journey?

[00:22:35] Kat: Oh, my gosh! This has happened a lot of times. This is a regular occurrence for founders and it’s something that maybe isn’t talked about but there are crises all the time. We’re constantly putting out fires and there are many sleepless nights. Whether it’s a shipment that got delayed, or, maybe we lost an order from a big retailer. Or, we made the wrong decision to launch in a different country, which I have been really vocal about with our UK launch on LinkedIn.

[00:23:04] Kat: In terms of, what got us through that, I will say, I am very lucky to have a co-founder as I referenced earlier, because, usually when one of us is okay the other one is not, and we bounce each other out and really talk the other off the ledge. 

[00:23:19] Kat: So I think that’s been really helpful just to be really open and have constant communication with each other.

[00:23:26] Kat: We’re talking to each other every day. It’s like a marriage truthfully. So that’s been helpful, but I think the support from friends, family, and other founders is the most important thing. And when it comes to mental health, invest in yourself, invest in whether it’s therapy, working together in masterminds.

[00:23:45] Kat: I’m currently part of a woman founder mastermind where we meet every two weeks and talk about our hurdles and, getting through tough times. And just overall, mental health and helping each other out. That’s been really crucial. Just leaning on support is huge, because as a founder, you want to do everything as we talked about earlier, but you really have to understand that you can’t do everything and you can’t get yourself through everything if you’re mentally in a really fragile state.

[00:24:14] Kat: My partner has been great. I talked to him about every little issue. And I talk his ear off sometimes, but thank God for him. So yeah, just making sure whether it’s a friend, family member, partner, whoever it is, other founder, make sure to take time to talk about what’s going on and get feedback and get support.

[00:24:34] Rohit: That’s a wonderful insight. Was one of these moments like where you hit the bed thinking it’s all over, or is it like, it’s difficult, I’ll have to manage it, but I’ll get over it. Which one of these two?

[00:24:45] Kat: Oh yeah, we’ve had everything, everything under the sun in terms of these moments, 

[00:24:49] Kat: but there was one moment that I referred to when we we launched to the UK. We were not in control of our own sales, we were outsourcing all of our own sales [00:25:00] and we just didn’t have control over where the business was going. We were spending so much money on this big launch in the UK and we weren’t making money off of this. I remember coming home from that trip and Victoria and I had a call with a new accountant that we had hired. He looked at all of our bookkeeping and our numbers and our financials, and he looked at us and he said, you don’t have a sustainable business, this is not going to work. Our hearts just sunk. And that was the summer of 2019 or 2020. I don’t remember, it’s all a blur. But both of us were just completely distraught, and, we knew, we had to make a decision right then and there to fix the issue and we did and we’re good now. But, it was a moment of sheer panic and a conversation between the two of us to say,’ is this worth continuing?’ What are we going to do? How are we going to make decisions moving forward? How are we going to spend our money? Who are we going to hire? Who are we going to let go of? All of these things, all these factors. And when you’ve built something for years and you hear that from someone it’s the most painful thing to hear. But we all have to have these. failures and learn from them. And they know, the fact that it happened to us, we’ve learned so much from it and we’re in a much better place now because of it.

[00:26:12]Rohit: It’s amazing that you overcame such a dire, something that would have had dire consequences for your brand. Tell me one thing, I’ve always wondered, people who really make it. Do these people never take a day off, an hour off, do they never drink, do they never get down, they just keep going? Or they also have all the vices, they also feel down, they also don’t work at times, they don’t work as hard at times, but they just keep going? Which out of these two, would you say you are?

[00:26:40] Kat: Oh, definitely the latter. I don’t drink, but my morning routine is almost two hours. I start work around 9:30 -10, because I meditate, I work out, I make myself a huge breakfast, I go for a walk with my dog, and I am okay with that. I don’t need to wake up at 5am and get right into my emails because that stresses me out.

[00:27:01] Kat: This year, I’ve really focused on taking that extra step to focus on my mornings, to really set my day, to really focus on my mental health and the business is doing the best it’s ever done. I don’t feel like I’m on that hamster wheel that I used to be when I was maybe trying really hard, but not, feeling as good mentally.

[00:27:23] Kat: Those were the times when we didn’t do as well as a brand, and Victoria and I have had the conversation of, let’s just take the pressure off a little bit, because there’s so much pressure on founders to succeed and to make money and to get further ahead of the competition. But we’re okay, as I said, with growing slow, growing sustainably and getting to where we need to be so that we can live our lives comfortably and happily. Yeah, so definitely the latter in that question. 

[00:27:48] Rohit: Thank you. That offered some consolation to me, because I always wonder, what kind of behavior or personality should I have? Obviously, I cannot change my personality, not that easy. But for one thing, you don’t drink alcohol. Sometimes I deal with my weeks, whatever rejection I’ve had with a beer or a glass of scotch. 

[00:28:06] Kat: No judgment. We all need our fix of something. And for me, that’s having dessert most nights or indulging in other things, which is totally fine. 

[00:28:16] Rohit: I agree. And you said something very important about entrepreneurs, that they do need this. Because I never had these feelings when I was working in corporate. Only in entrepreneurship, because you feel you could have done this extra, you would have sent this yesterday, you would have completed this too. So that’s where I started feeling that guilt and this is a question that maybe only I am interested in, but, I try to ask every founder who’s a guest on my show. 

[00:28:39] Rohit: Perfect Katerina, so I’ll move to the speed round now. It’s all about one, two, three word answer, whatever your thoughts are, very succinctly put. 

[00:28:47] [00:30:00] 

[00:30:01] Rohit: Absolutely. I’ll play devil’s advocate with the first quote you said. I don’t want to offend you, but I’ve always been curious about that quote, how you make people feel, so, because nobody’s perfect, right?

[00:30:11] Rohit: I’ll give you a two by two, somebody who makes you feel great and the other person who doesn’t make you feel great, but tells you the right things, and means well.

[00:30:19] Kat: I totally agree with that. I think transparency and being up front is important and I think, you might feel that you respect that person more. I don’t think it’s a bad thing. Yeah, so I, I’m not opposed to that thought at all.

[00:30:31] 

[00:31:52] Kat: There is love and solace I would say. Comfort. I know I keep referring to comfort, but it’s like wherever you feel comfortable 

[00:32:02] Rohit: And where there’s pure air? 

[00:32:04] Kat: Exactly. 

[00:32:06] Rohit: Perfect. Perfect. You were absolutely wonderful, Kat. I love the way you are so grounded when you speak, like I’m always jumping for some reason. Kat, that brings us to the end of this episode, you have answered every question with so much insight, whether it is on how do you see the home fragrance category evolving? What mistakes beauty founders making? Now, what is your message to the viewers of this podcast as the co-founder of LOHN. Any news you want to share or anything you want to tell them?

[00:32:38] Kat: What is my message? Okay. Firstly, if you’re out there and you’re building something, or you have a side hustle and you’re interested in building your own brand don’t put too much pressure on yourself as I was referencing. And, just know that whatever effort you’re putting in, whether it’s 10 minutes a day, an hour a day if you’re working a full time nine to five job, that will get you to the right spot and will lead you to the right next step. Today’s wholesale culture can be really intense and can make you feel like you’re not doing enough, but just know that wherever you’re putting your energy in, it’s getting to the right space. I will say, you can find us, I will promote us a little bit. Find us on TikTok and Instagram, LOHN Official.

[00:33:17] Kat: And you can shop with us on shoplohn.com. Always open to DMs on Instagram and messages to our email so feel free to reach out. And yeah, hopefully you’ll discover some scents that you love. 

[00:33:29] Rohit: Perfect. And the humble traits that Kat has, she has not told us that she also mentors aspiring beauty entrepreneurs, founders, et cetera.

[00:33:40] Rohit: So anyone who wants to emulate her success, go past even where Kat has gone, because if she teaches you, you’ll go there faster because she had to learn it the hard way. Please feel free to reach out to her on LinkedIn, Instagram or send her an email. You can find, the emails are not that difficult to find, maybe in some other podcasts, I’ll tell people how to cold email founders or your prospects. Thank you so much, Kat. It was absolutely wonderful to have you on the podcast. I truly appreciate it. I wish you and LOHN all the very best. 

[00:34:10] Kat: Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time and I’m excited to continue building this friendship and this partnership.

[00:34:17] Rohit: Sure. Thank you very much. Have a wonderful evening.

[00:34:19]